Lawyers for Democracy: Anna Chu
June 22nd, 2023
“Not everyone becomes a civil rights attorney.”
Anna Chu is the executive director of We The Action, an organization that connects volunteer lawyers with nonprofits that require legal assistance. We discuss how lawyers play a unique and critical role in strengthening American democracy.
A strong democracy relies on everyone having the ability to have their voices heard at every level of the government, but in the US there is a huge gap between who is actually eligible to vote and who actually votes. In addition, there are lots of different rights currently being challenged at the federal level and at the state level. Lawyers can and do advance access to justice, as well as ensure that democracy can be accessible for everyone.
Follow Anna on Twitter:
Follow Mila on Twitter:
Follow Future Hindsight on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/futurehindsightpod/
Love Future Hindsight? Take our Listener Survey!
http://survey.podtrac.com/start-survey.aspx?pubid=6tI0Zi1e78vq&ver=standard
Take the Democracy Group’s Listener Survey!
https://www.democracygroup.org/survey
Want to support the show and get it early?
https://patreon.com/futurehindsight
Credits:
Host: Mila Atmos
Guest: Anna Chu
Executive Producer: Mila Atmos
Producers: Zack Travis
-
Anna Chu Transcript
Andy Slavitt: [00:00:00] Hey, it's Andy Slavitt, host of In the Bubble from Lemonada Media. In the Bubble is the go to place to learn more about the most important news events on your mind, and with a bunch of awards to prove it. We take the time that's needed to go beyond the headlines with A-list guests from my bubble, from Tina Fey to Tony Fauci, from the next vaccine to the next election issue, to an occasional dad joke. It's actual facts from actual experts. In the Bubble every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts.
Mila Atmos: [00:00:33] Welcome to Future Hindsight, a podcast that takes big ideas about civic life and democracy and turns them into action items for you and me. I'm Mila Atmos.
As Americans, we enjoy a lot of rights and freedoms. It's the bedrock of our democracy. And throughout our nation's history, our rights have been contested and fought over, expanded -- and, yes, also shrunk. And in these battles for our rights, whether that's voting rights or reproductive rights, or on issues of poverty or immigration, we are best armed with a good lawyer on our side.
To discuss how lawyers play a unique and critical piece in strengthening our democracy, we're joined by Anna Chu. She's the executive director of We the Action, an organization that connects volunteer lawyers with nonprofits that require legal assistance. In recognition for their work, We the Action was just named a world changing idea by Fast Company magazine.
Anna, welcome. Thank you for joining us.
Anna Chu: [00:01:42] Hi, Mila. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here with you.
Mila Atmos: [00:01:46] So to get us started, congratulations on being named a world changing idea. That's a big deal. So I hope you're getting a lot of really good attention. And since it is a world changing idea, it's relatively new. You have only been in
existence for five years, since July of 2017. Tell us about the founding. What precipitated it? What was the need you were trying to fill?
Anna Chu: [00:02:09] I'm so glad you start there. I think this is very exciting. We are so grateful for the recognition from Fast Company. We the Action was really founded to mobilize volunteer lawyers, to work with nonprofits, to advance access to justice. Our founding was during the Trump presidency, in which he had executive order after executive order targeting some of our immigrant neighbors. And so what we saw after one of them is that lawyers rose up in droves and showed up at airports wanting to help, you know, migrants that were coming off of the plane, and doing whatever they can. And that was when this idea came about. We saw that there were lots of lawyers who want to be part of a broader effort to advance access to justice, but may not know how to do that, how they can apply their skills. And then we also see nonprofits in huge need of pro bono free legal services. But many are not set up to access the law firms or access the community of pro bono volunteer lawyers. And so, what We the Action did was build a state-of-the-art technology platform that allows us to easily mobilize volunteer lawyers to apply their skills in the areas of their choosing to really work hand- in-hand with the nonprofits to advance access to justice.
Mila Atmos: [00:03:52] So let's talk a little bit about broadening access to justice, because I think a lot of people don't understand that there is a gap with access to justice. And when we were thinking about our episode today, it occurred to me that talking about connecting lawyers on a pro bono basis seems kind of esoteric for a democracy podcast. But actually it's kind of basic because so much of American life is decided through the legal process. Why do you think this gap exists and persists?
Anna Chu: [00:04:26] That's a really big question. So I think what we see and what we've received lots of education about in particular over the last decade is that oftentimes our legal system and our American system is stacked against, and hard to access for, communities of color, low income people, non-English speakers, and other historically marginalized groups. And we see this difficulty play out in many different sectors. And to your point, it plays out in our democracy sector. In order to have a strong democracy, for example, we really need everyone to have the ability to have their voices heard at every level of the government. But there are just significant gaps in that access. For example, there's a huge gap between who is actually eligible to vote
and who actually votes. And we see this play out especially for people of color. And I'll give you just a small example. In 2020, only about 58% of nonwhite eligible voters actually voted. And between 2018 and 2022, we saw black turnout fall about ten points. And so we need to ensure that the ballot box is actually accessible for every voter. And I think that's where lawyers have a huge role that they can play. So what we've done, you know, over the last five years is we've mobilized tens and tens of thousands of attorneys to try to make the election more safe, more secure and more accessible. So it means that our volunteer staff or our volunteer lawyers, excuse me, help staff the nonpartisan National Voter Protection Hotline, like tens of thousands of shifts, you know, every election. It also means that we have volunteers represent local election officials, because we have seen over the last couple of years that local election officials are facing more and more harassment and threats, and they themselves need help and need lawyers in order to help doing their job. And we've also, of course, seen very complicated voting laws being enacted in locales across the country. And so lawyers can step in there. And our volunteers have done so to help translate that law into very easy to understand guides, to really empower voters. And so at every step of the way, lawyers can have and do play a really important role in ensuring that democracy can be accessible for everyone.
Mila Atmos: [00:07:15] That's a great example. I have a question about manning the hotline, because why do you need a lawyer to man the hotline for elections? I just kind of want to expand what kind of skill set a lawyer has that is so useful on these calls.
Anna Chu: [00:07:32] I think one of the skill sets that lawyers have that make it so important for in terms of the hotline is the ability to spot issues, spot problems and find a solution or direct a person towards a solution. Um, often times when people encounter problems, they don't necessarily think, "Oh, this is a legal problem." "Oh, something is wrong that needs to be fixed." What we instead see is that many people go, "Oh, this is just a special thing that I need to try to work through. This was a flux. This was a unique issue. Oh, it's just someone made a simple mistake." But what actually happens is that sometimes those simple mistakes are mistakes that happen over and over again. And in terms of the election, if a mistake happens over and over and over again, it could impede someone's access. And if it happens more than once, it impedes thousands and thousands of people's access to the ballot box. And so what the lawyers can do is learn the voting laws that are applicable, laws that hopefully, you know, were built to address
these instances, these, quote unquote, one off problems, but in actuality may be happening across the country. And so by spotting the problems, identifying the solution, hopefully we can, you know, make sure that the ballot box is accessible to more and more voters and that we fix the issue when we see it.
Mila Atmos: [00:09:10] I want to stay with your work on voting rights and making sure that people have the access to vote in this moment. You recently worked with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition to help people with previous felony convictions to restore their right to vote. And this sounds like a way bigger commitment than helping elected officials and also way bigger than manning a hotline. So what did this work entail? How did it look like?
Anna Chu: [00:09:35] I love this work and I am so glad you raised this project. It is near and dear to our team's hearts. So, you know, roughly speaking, we see about 2% of Americans remain unable to vote due to a past conviction. And so what we've done, you know, to try to tackle some of that problem is, as you said, we've, are working with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, and we're rejoiced to see that Florida did pass a law that would allow people with prior felony convictions to get their voting rights back. But it is not a simple process where in this bill was signed into law and suddenly everyone woke up and can walk to the ballot box. Instead, there's actually a labyrinth of red tape and forms and data and information they need to submit to the state and then also fees to pay to regain their voting rights. And so this is a step by step process. And we're in it with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition the entire way. We've had about 500 volunteers work with the organization to research over 15,000 cases to get people back on the path to regaining the right to vote. The research is just the first steps, and we're working closely with the organization because there's a lot of red tape. But together we're going to walk through them and we're going to get people the power to go back and vote again.
Mila Atmos: [00:11:05] That's excellent. So I want to talk about the fact that you're working actually with an organization, and you mentioned this at the top, that you're working with non-profit organizations. So as opposed to, let's say, representing individuals on a case by case basis. Why do you work with organizations as opposed to with private people?
Anna Chu: [00:11:22] That is a good question. I think we want to tackle this problem at scale and we want to recognize that there are lots of good groups already doing good work. For example, we see a lot of groups working on immigration issues that actually have a direct way to access or speak with people who are trying to file for asylum. And so in those cases, they may actually need individual attorneys in order to help their individual clients. And so there are efficiencies in the system, you know, for us to work directly with the nonprofit that is already set up, that already has access to a community and so just need the lawyers to help their clients If we are to start up on the ground doing outreach directly to people facing all sorts of different issues from election officials who are facing harassment to people who are looking for help with their asylum application. It would be an infrastructure we would be rebuilding. So let's respect the infrastructure built by the nonprofits doing the good work and let's do what we do best, which is mobilize our volunteer lawyers to connect with them and their clients.
Mila Atmos: [00:12:48] Right, Right. One of the things that struck me in this model is that lawyers don't have to commit to a huge project, that they can--if they want to--just offer free legal support for a few hours, which makes all the difference in some cases. It makes it easy for the lawyers, but it also makes it easy for the organizations to connect the access. One example that really struck me, and since you just spoke about immigration, is about one of your volunteers who went to the Dilley Texas Immigration Detention Center, and she wasn't even an immigration lawyer, so she had to get trained on the ground before she volunteered for a few days. How did you think about making it easy for volunteer lawyers to provide pro bono services in a way that's sustainable?
Anna Chu: [00:13:36] I love this question because I've been that lawyer, too. I remember my early days at a big law firm and wanting to do pro bono work, but not knowing how to access a variety of opportunities. I knew, you know, go to my local legal aid, but I didn't know much more than that. And I also, to your point, I had qualms and nervousness about volunteering in areas where I'm not an expert. And I think every lawyer has that fear. We want to do good by our clients, but we also want to make sure we're giving the proper advice and we don't necessarily feel comfortable about that unless we know the law in and out. And so what We the Action does is, through the platform, we make it easy for lawyers to access a variety of opportunities just at their fingertips. So, for example, if I'm very vested in immigration or if I'm very vested in abortion rights, I can look up and find and search projects from across the country that I
can apply my skill sets to. And I also note that a big part of this is also the training and education involved. And I've heard this from lawyer upon lawyer from law firm upon law firm, that that is very highly valued. And so that is a piece that we try to address both in our working relationship with nonprofits, asking and encouraging trainings and mentorship of the volunteers. That does make for a more successful experience. But in the past we have also created education training sessions on issues for our volunteers as well. For example, after the Supreme Court decision in Dobbs last year that overturned Roe v Wade, we put together a webinar along with our partners on reproductive rights. You know, what is the state of play? What is, are folks seeing across the states? And more background and history on the issue, so that the lawyers can be more prepared to handle casework or to advise nonprofits working on this issue. So that's just some of the ways in which we're trying to make the volunteer opportunity easier and more accessible for more people. So again, we can welcome more into the fold to do this good work with us.
Mila Atmos: [00:16:14] We are taking a break to share about Girl and the Gov. It's a podcast for Millennials, Xennials, and Gen Z to catch up on the politics of the day.
Girl and The Gov: [00:16:24] Available on airwaves and YouTube every Tuesday and Wednesday, Girl and the Gov the podcast is an extension of Girl and the Gov's mission to provide a platform for Millennials, Xennials, and Gen Z to engage with the evolving political sphere in an approachable, digestible and accessible way. Hosted by Sammy Kanter, That's me. And Maddie Medved. That's me. The podcast provides an inside look at the ins and outs of government and politics as we know it today. There are engaging interviews with leaders in the field and segments that address the questions everyone wants to ask but never does. In this podcast, there's no question too stupid, no rock left unturned and no mysterious jargon that isn't examined in depth. The podcast releases two episodes per week, one on Tuesdays focused on the top stories in political news for the week, and one on Wednesdays featuring a guest interview. Over 100 episodes are available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, YouTube and more. Featuring top names in politics like Congressman Swalwell, Arkansas Minority Leader Tippi McCullough, Attorney General Dana Nessel, Congressman Ro Khanna, San Francisco mayor London Breed, and many more. So for all those who want to know more about our government and how it works, but don't know where to start, you can start with us.
Mila Atmos: [00:17:33] And now let's return to my conversation with Anna Chu.
You have a whole roster of issues that you work on like really a huge list. But I'm curious to know what makes up the bulk of your work. What are the most common issues or where can you feel the most lawyers to do the work?
Anna Chu: [00:17:53] So you are right. We work with nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, and so that does mean a wide variety of issues. But we do have four issues in which we really try to center a lot of our energy. So that includes democracy work and immigration work, which we spoke about, but that also includes gender equity and racial justice. You know, I think the vast majority of our time is spent on immigration and democracy. But that said, I think how you started off the segment was great. There are lots of different rights we have that are being challenged, you know, at the federal level and at the state level. And what we've seen in the last couple of years is that play out in the gender equity space, specifically around abortion. I spent a lot of time in working in the gender equity space. And what's really important is that people really should be able to decide for themselves if, when and how to build their family. But that right is being taken away or under threat, you know, or severely compromised. And so what we've done and I think it's it's a special, unique thing is we were able to answer the moment and the need rather quickly. So after the decision, we were able to mobilize many of our attorneys towards projects with nonprofits that are focused on protecting our reproductive rights. And so in 2022, we actually had about 220 with the action volunteer lawyers that worked with a variety of nonprofits to navigate the legal complexities of this issue, to track abortion related bills that are coming through states, but also to do things such as serve as legal observers at protests. One example was actually a volunteer who had the chance to work with an abortion provider in Georgia to help them translate and navigate the changing law in Georgia in real time. And the abortion provider, because of that help, they were able to actually stay open and continue providing services. That is just, you know, one of the issues that we are spending more effort and more time on. And I think it speaks to the urgency of the moment. It speaks to the value add of our model because we are able to mobilize quickly, be nimble and to address urgent moments.
Mila Atmos: [00:20:38] Mhm. Mhm. Well, for sure the reproductive rights space requires a lot, a lot of work right in this moment. But since you're so close to the ground,
you're working with so many organizations, is there something that is on your radar today that maybe as an everyday person we don't know about because we're not in the middle of it?
Anna Chu: [00:20:57] I think there are several things that I am thinking about here. The need around reproductive freedom, reproductive rights will remain, to your point, because the legal landscape there is not clear and will likely be unclear for some time. You know, we'll see, continue to see, efforts by states and federally to curb this right. And so there's a continued need for our volunteer lawyers and our community to support the nonprofits leading the work. But going back to our example with the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and addressing the ability for Americans to vote even with a past conviction, we're seeing momentum on that issue. I think we are seeing states like Minnesota and New Mexico actually pass legislation to restore voting rights once a person is no longer in custody. And so we are looking into that issue and tracking, you know, what is happening at the state level, because hopefully that can mean we will be able to do good work in order to get more people their right to vote back. Another issue that we see coming up is just the increase in terms of immigration, legal services. We're seeing lots of changes happening at the border in response to what's going on with Title 42. And so we know that right now there is about like a backlog of about 1.6 million asylum applications that are just waiting.
Mila Atmos: [00:22:37] Wow, 1.6 million. That's a lot.
Anna Chu: [00:22:41] And that's before what we're seeing right now. And so we've mobilized like hundreds of lawyers to donate. I think like it's roughly around 3000 hours, you know, to help applicants prepare them for their hearings, to help with the application to represent them in court, you know, and other things. But we see that need increasing. I think the other piece that we are seeing is the increased attack on trans people. We're seeing that like play out at the state level and also at the federal level. It is a newer, more emerging issue, but one in which we're really trying to pay attention to and to start reaching out to groups doing this work, whether it be groups like Lambda Legal or the ACLU. Because if that plays out, it just means more and more people are at risk and at harm. And it's something that I really want us to get ahead of.
Mila Atmos: [00:23:40] Well, you were talking a little bit about the numbers here. You know, 1.6 million cases and also the many hours that have already been dedicated here. And while you have only been in existence for five years, you've already made a big difference in the fight for justice. And when I was reading up on the numbers, I was really stunned by the staggering amount of volunteers and how much they've contributed. And while numbers can sometimes make your eyes glaze over, there's strength in articulating them. So tell us about the impact of We the Action.
Anna Chu: [00:24:14] The numbers are actually rather impressive. So, We the Action has grown into a community of more than 45,000 lawyers, and we're working with over 550 nonprofit organizations from across the country. Over the last five years, our lawyers have donated over 275,000 hours in legal services. And, you know, we did the math so that you don't have to -- but what that translates into is more than $150 million worth of free legal services going straight to nonprofits, helping them advance access to justice. I think that is just one way to talk about the impact. You know, I think the stories in terms of the people that we're able to help in Florida or the asylees whose application we were able to assist. They tell us the day to day real world what's actually happened because of this help.
Mila Atmos: [00:25:21] Yeah, that's so impressive. You know, we've had several lawyers on the show about different issues, and we have heard over and over again that access to justice in part is limited because there's a shortage of access to good lawyers. And so I'm really happy to hear that you're making this access available to people here. At Future Hindsight, we believe that democracy is a practice. So how does the work of the volunteers, the work of We the Action fit into a practice of democracy?
Anna Chu: [00:25:56] I love that question. It's a very, very deep question, Mila. I want to start by saying that it really goes back to why a lot of lawyers chose this profession. You know, I speak for myself, definitely many members of my team, but many like lawyer friends that I know. For many of us, we have a very optimistic vision of the world, you know, and the country that a country that is just, that is equitable in which everybody can have that same access. And so we enter the legal profession with that ideal and with a desire to make that into reality and to protect that. And we see, though, that that isn't always the case. And so I think what ends up happening oftentimes is we have pressures as we're going along our career, whether it be family, you know, health issues
that arise, various different things where not everyone becomes a civil rights attorney. But volunteering pro bono work. This type of work allows lawyers to get back to oftentimes why they started in the law in the first place. And it allows them to do it in a way that balances, you know, the pressures they may face in their life, in their careers. And it doesn't mean that someone has to stop everything that they've been doing, make 180-degree turn and become the civil rights warrior. They can keep their practice that they find enjoyable. They can keep advancing in different areas, but they can still retain that grain of why they joined this profession.
Mila Atmos: [00:27:55] Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important that your civic action is something that you can weave into your everyday life and not turn your life upside down to do your part. So what have you learned about harnessing the power of lawyers to drive social change?
Anna Chu: [00:28:11] Oh, goodness. I think there are some things learned, and some things that we still need to test in regards to how we harness lawyers to drive social change. I think what we've learned is that this model works and that we are addressing a real gap both within the legal services community and also with nonprofits. And I think the thing, though, to test is what more a large community like us can do and how we can be more on the front end of challenges and issues. And I'll give you an example. In the reproductive rights space, we know that folks who are against reproductive freedoms were on that fight for decades and had a myriad of well worked out legal thinking and strategies in order to achieve their end goal of restricting rights. And I always posit to myself, what if we had more lawyers on our side, like thinking through and laying out the different legal theories to continue advancing and protecting our rights? And so that's, I think, what is part of what we still need to learn and figure out. We've done really great work in mobilizing our community to do a lot of the defensive work. And so I think the next step is thinking through how we can be at the front end and do more proactive work to advance and protect rights.
Mila Atmos: [00:29:56] Is that not, though, a question of legislation as opposed to a question of... You know, like, how are you thinking about this? I'm curious now.
Anna Chu: [00:30:05] I think about this always through the lens of our partners, right. I have to acknowledge, you know, and respect their expertise and not try to step on their
toes. What I do want is to expand their capacity for the legal strategic work. And expand their capacity also to support their legislative work. I'll give you an example. We have had lawyers help nonprofit organizations research the existing state of law. Say in Missouri, we had a lawyer pair with an organization to research the state of sexual harassment laws. And in doing that research, the lawyer found loopholes, gaping loopholes that was just hindering progress and advancement and hindering a survivor's ability to see justice. And so he worked with the organization to propose ways, legislative ways, to close those loopholes. The nonprofit was really enthused about it. They actually worked together to actually write that bill. And then he supported the nonprofit in their advocacy efforts to actually get it passed and signed into law. And so I think that's the type of work that really excites me, because it is the ability that lawyers can have in spotting where are the holes, where are ways that we can advance an issue, tighten up the law, and then actually work with the nonprofits to do that, to write actual legislative language and then support the efforts to get it passed. That is the beauty that this work can be, that this work can have an example of how we can be proactive. And on the front end of this conversation.
Mila Atmos: [00:31:57] Well. This is really getting you excited. I can hear that. You yourself have dedicated your own career to addressing gender equity and economic inequality at the National Women's Law Center and at the Center for American Progress Action Fund and of course, here at We the Action and everything you just talked about. So why are you passionate about this work? What gets you up in the morning?
Anna Chu: [00:32:20] Oh, gosh, maybe it gets a little bit personal. The reason as to why I'm passionate. Um, my dad is actually a refugee from China, and he at that time grew up with a very restrictive government that sent him to hard labor in the countryside because his grandfather owned land. And, you know, he escaped from that, you know, did the trek through the mountains and the swim across the bay to Hong Kong and was eventually granted the ability to come here as a refugee. And when he came here through a more generous immigration policy, he was able to help, you know, many members of his family also immigrate here. And then through a slate of policies from WIC to lower cost, accessible higher education, the family was able to make a living here, was able to send kids to college to, I guess, eke out the American dream. But I think there's a lot behind that where people say it's the bootstrap story, but I don't think of it as the bootstrap story. It took a lot of people to develop intentional policies that
allow folks to have and achieve economic security. And I think about that a lot, my family's story. And I think about how once we make it through that door, you do not slam the door, like to everybody else who needs that. Instead, you reach through and you try to pull as many people through as possible. And so that's how I think about my mission and my career. I am just so grateful for everything that my parents and my family went through and the good policies that were passed in this country that allowed us to thrive. That's why I'm passionate about this. I want that opportunity available for everyone. And so this is my method of reaching through the door.
Mila Atmos: [00:34:38] That's beautiful. Access to opportunity is, in many ways, access to justice.
Anna Chu: [00:34:44] Yes. Yes.
Mila Atmos: [00:34:45] We always ask our guests to help us build our civic action tool
kit. What are two things everyday people can do to improve access to justice?
Anna Chu: [00:34:57] Mila, I'm going to take this opportunity to make a little bit of a plug. First is support We the Action. Support our work in mobilizing lawyers and in making sure that access to justice is available to more and more people. You can check us out at wetheaction.org and I will always also say vote. Vote yourself. Remember to register. Remember to show up and bring a friend, too. Because we need to have a democracy that reflects all our voices. In order to have that, we must exercise our voice.
Mila Atmos: [00:35:36] Yes. Hear. Hear. So here's my last question. Looking into the future, what makes you hopeful?
Anna Chu: [00:35:43] What makes me hopeful about the future is seeing so many people raise their hands wanting to do good. Everybody is always very impressed to hear we have over 45,000 volunteer lawyers in our community, but I deeply believe there are more than 45,000 lawyers out there who want to be part of this fight to advance access to justice. And so I'm really excited, actually, about growing the community, doing a lot more recruitment efforts, reaching out to a lot more lawyers to welcome them to the fold and have them join the good work. I also think that there are many, many more nonprofits who can use that free legal services from a lawyer. I think
we will grow our community of nonprofits. It's going to be more than 550 nonprofits that need help. And so hopefully, Mila, the next time I'll come in, I can tell you even bigger and better numbers and have even more stories about the good work being done. But, you know, the work gives me hope that the enthusiasm from our community gives me hope. And I just think that we can do more together.
Mila Atmos: [00:37:05] Well, this was an incredibly hopeful conversation. All in all. You know, we we often have doom and gloom conversations on the podcast, too, because the reality of democracy in the United States is, shall I say, suboptimal. So it's really wonderful to know that there are people like you, like We the Action and the 45,000 volunteers who are in there, rolling up their sleeves and doing the work.
Anna Chu: [00:37:29] Thank you, Mila. I'm just happy that we have the opportunity to do this. I do believe that the long arc of history bends towards justice. And so we just all have to do our parts to get us there.
Mila Atmos: [00:37:42] That's right. Thank you very much, Anna, for joining us on Future Hindsight. It was really a pleasure to have you on the show.
Anna Chu: [00:37:49] Thank you so much, Mila. I really enjoyed speaking with you today.
Mila Atmos: [00:37:52] Anna Chu is the executive director of We the Action, an organization that connects volunteer lawyers with nonprofits that require legal assistance.
Next week on Future Hindsight, we'll be joined by Dr. Richard Haass. He's president of the Council on Foreign Relations and author of The Bill of Obligations: Ten Habits of Good Citizens.
Richard Haass: [00:38:18] Rights Alone will not guarantee the smooth functioning of a society. Rights inevitably clash. Well, what then? How do we avoid gridlock? Or worse yet, how do we avoid violence? And the idea that violence couldn't come to America, alas, is not true. We've seen elements of violence, politically inspired violence, and that's where obligations kick in. Obligations that you and I, the two of us, would have to one another and to other people in this society. And obligations that each of us would have to this country and to the government.
Mila Atmos: [00:38:50] That's next time on Future Hindsight.
Have you checked us out on Instagram yet? We've got a bunch more tips to help you build your Civic Action toolkit. Follow us on Instagram @FutureHindsightPod to get special updates, episode clips, and everything in between.
This episode was produced by Zack Travis and me.
Until next time, stay engaged!
The Democracy Group: [00:39:22] This podcast is part of the Democracy Group.